Gibson: Yes, but Hitler was a maniac, ok? Hitler was a madman, he was also an occultist. You know, he was into devil worship; he, he believed in the superiority of the Aryan race and he was like...all this old Norse Viking kind of stuff, that was what he was into, ok? He was a monster. So, he was already like that; I don't think a passion play turned Hitler around.
There are many even today who still claim that Hitler was a Christian. The evidence for this idea is from selective statements taken from Mein Kampf as well as several public speeches. If the dates are examined, most of Hitler's pro-Christian statements were made either before 1933 (when he assumed the Chancellorship) or during that same year as he consoliated his power. His rise to power was aided by the support of many different groups, one of which was the Catholic Center Party. His later treatment of Catholics (and Protestants) demonstrate how political his Christian lip service truly was.
The official Nazi party program included the following statement: "liberty for all religious denominations in the State as far as they are not a danger to...the moral feelings of the German race. The party stands for Positive Christianity." Before concluding that this is evidence of the Christian nature of the National Socialists, it is important to know what this term actually meant. It was defined by Dr. Hans Kerrl, Minister of Church Affairs, in a speech delivered to submissive churchmen on February 13, 1937:
William L. Shirer
(page 239)
The vision for this national church was clearly drawn up in a thirty-point program, which included the following points:
- The National Reich Church of Germany categorically claims the exclusive right and the exclusive power to control all churches within the borders of the Reich; it declares these to be national churches of the German Reich.
- The National Church is determined to exterminate irrevocably...the strange and foreign Christian faiths imported into Germany in the ill-omened year 800.
- The National Church has no scribes, pastors, chaplains or priests, but National Reich orators are to speak in them.
- The National Church demands immediate cessation of the publishing and dissemination of the Bible in Germany...
- The National Church declares that to it, and therefore to the German nation, it has been decided that the Fuehrer's Mein Kampf is the greatest of all documents. It...not only contains the greatest but it embodies the purest and truest ethics for the present and future life of our nation.
- The National Church will clear away from its altars all crucifixes, Bibles and pictures of saints.
- On the altars there must be nothing but Mein Kampf (to the German and therefore to God the most sacred book) and to the left of the altar a sword.
- On the day of its foundation, the Christian Cross must be removed from all churches, cathedrals and chapels...and it must be superseded by the only unconquerable symbol, the swastika.
William L. Shirer
(page 240)
This quote reminds us of the horror of living in Germany in the late 1930’s and not knowing who to trust.
“In Germany, the Nazis first came for the Communists, and I didn’t
speak up because I wasn’t a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and
I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew. Then they came for the trade
unionists, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics, but I didn’t speak up because I was a
Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.” - Martin Niemoeller, Berlin Lutheran pastor
arrested by the Gestapo and sent to Dachau concentration camp in 1938;
the Allied forces freed him seven years later.
Diane Sawyer did not say Hitler was a Christian, only that he saw a way to use the passion play to influence the feelings of Christian Germany. But as we both know, claiming to be a Christian nation and being Christian are entirely different.
Shirer is a terrible source for information about the Third Reich. If you believe Shirer then you still believe that the Germans made soap out of human fat.... I never heard of the “National German Church.” Far from abolishing Bible-churches as this “National German Church” allegedly proposed, Hitler actually started a federal subsidy for the Lutheran and Catholic Churches which continues today. Shirer was a Jewish journalist writing anti-Nazi propaganda. Stop relying on Shirer and get a halfway respectable source if you want to discuss the Third Reich.
To be honest, I’m afraid to ask you for a “reputable” source, per the domain on your email address.
In all of my research, I have never found anything that insinuated that Shirer was of Jewish descent. I haven’t quite figured out what difference it would make if it were so. It seems you believe it does, either by biasing him in favor of the Jews and thus against Nazi Germany or because his ancestry makes him unreliable to you.
The Nazi government did not abolish bible-churches but instead attempted to garner their support, merge them and form them into an instrument, just as they did with every other element of society.
Oh, and if there is a Hitler initiated subsity for the Lutheran church still going today, that doesn’t bother me. Neither do I get angry when I see a Volkswagen driving down the road. It is 2004, not 1938.
Scott doesn’t seem to be able to follow the train of either my logic or his own. The purport of his original post was that national-socialism was anti-Christian, and not just in some subtle way, but overtly and actively. Then when I mention that Hitler initiated federal subsidies of the Lutheran and Catholic Churches, he responds as if I were trying to smear those churches (and ultimately Volkswagens too, apparently). Not at all. I am just providing evidence that the original proposition was false. ----- That said, one can argue that National-Socialism as a political philosophy, with its biological concerns, is divergent from a strictly Christian worldview that only thinks in terms of heaven and hell. In practice however the NSDAP depended on Christian support and membership, so that any conflict was for the most part merely implicit. ----- Shirer wrote nonsense that is no more relevant to responsible historical inquiry than Franklin Roosevelt’s shocking claim in 1941 that he had acquired a copy of a nazi plan to abolish all religion everywhere, a plan which has never been made public and which nobody today, as far as I know, claims actually existed. People like FDR and William Shirer were saying nutty things back then--the equivalent of 2003’s outrageous tales about Saddam Hussein--and you ought to know better than to take them seriously.
http://king-of-fools.com/blog/trackback/550/W8zMY4pj/
King of Fools debunks the myth that Hitler was a Christian.
Discoveries from my wanderings around the 'sphere today: Gennie has a way that you can support our troops, and I add my voice to her passionate plea that you do so. Alos, if you have her bookmarked or blogrolled and...